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Tag Archive for: (BYDDF)

Douglas Davenport

The Great Race for Battery Technology

Tech Letter

One hundred years from now, historians will probably date the beginning of the fall of the American Empire to 1986.

That is the year President Ronald Reagan ordered Jimmy Carter's solar panels torn down from the White House roof, and when Chinese Premier Deng Xiaoping launched his top secret 863 program to make his country a global technology leader.

Lady LibertyIs the End is Near for the US?

The big question today is who will win one of the biggest opportunities of our generation?

Some 32 years later, the evidence that China is winning this final battle is everywhere. China dominates in windmill power, controls 97% of the world's rare earth supplies essential for modern electronics, is plunging ahead with clean coal, and boasts the world's most ambitious nuclear power program.

It is a dominant player in high-speed rail and is making serious moves into commercial and military aviation. It is also cleaning our clock in electric cars, with more than 30 low cost, emission free models coming to the market by the end of 2013.

Looking from a distance, one could conclude that China has already won the technology war.

And the Winner Is...

General Motors (GM) pitiful entrant in this sweepstakes, the Chevy Bolt, has utterly failed to reach the firm's sales targets. Still, I receive constant emails from drivers who say they absolute love the cars, and at $36,620, with dealer discounts it IS cheap.

This is all far more than a race to bring commercial products to the marketplace. At stake is nothing less than the viability of our two economic systems.

By setting national goals, providing unlimited funding, focusing scarce resources, and letting engineers run it all, China can orchestrate assaults on technical barriers and markets that planners here can only dream about.

And let's face it, economies of scale are possible in the Middle Kingdom that would be unimaginable in America.

Nissan LeafNissan Leaf

The laissez faire, libertarian approach now in vogue in the US creates a lot of noise, but little progress. The Dotcom bust dried up substantial research and development funding for technology for a decade.

While China was ramping up clean coal research, president Bush was closing down ours.

Toyota Plug-In Prius

Mention government involvement in anything these days and you get a sour, skeptical look. But this ignores the indisputable verdict of history.

Most of the great leaps forward in US economic history were the product of massive government involvement. I'm thinking of the transcontinental railroad, the Panama Canal, Hoover Dam, the atomic bomb, and the interstate highway system.

All of these were far too big for a private company ever to consider. If the government had not funneled billions in today's dollars into early computer research, your laptop today would run on vacuum tubes, be as big as a skyscraper, and cost $100 million.

Mainframe - OldCheck Out My New Laptop

I mention all of this not because I have a fascination with obscure automotive technologies or inorganic chemistry (even though I do).

Long time readers of this letter have already made some serious money in the battery space. This is not pie in the sky stuff; this is where money is being made now.

I caught a 500% gain by hanging on to Warren Buffet's coat tails with an investment in the Middle Kingdom's Build Your Dreams (BYDFF).

I followed with a 250% profit in Chile's Sociedad Qimica Y Minera (SQM), the world's largest lithium producer. Tesla's own shares have been the top performer in the US market in 2014, up from $16.50 to $392.

These are not small numbers. I have been an advocate and an enabler of this technology for 40 years, and my obsession has only recently started to pay off big time.

We're not talking about a few niche products here.

The research boutique, HIS Insights, predicts that electric cars will take over 15% of the global car market, or 7.5 million units by 2025. Even with costs falling, that means the market will then be worth $225 billion.

Electric cars and their multitude of spin off technologies will become a dominant investment theme for the rest of our lives. Think of the auto industry in the 1920's. (TSLA), (BYDDF), and (SQM) are just the appetizers.

All of this effort is being expended to bring battery technology out of the 19th century and into the 21st.

The first crude electrical cell was invented by Italian Alessandro Volta in 1759, and Benjamin Franklin came up with the term battery after his experiments with brass keys and lightning. In 1859, Gaston Plant discovered the formula that powers the Energizer bunny today.

Further progress was not made until none other than Exxon developed the first lithium-ion battery in 1977. Then, oil prices crashed, and the company scrapped the program, a strategy misstep that was to become a familiar refrain.

Sony (SNE) took over the lead with nickel metal hydride technology, and owns the industry today, along with Chinese and South Korean competitors.

BYD F3BYD F3

We wait in gas lines to fill 'er up for a reason. Gasoline has been the most efficient, concentrated, and easily distributed source of energy for more than a century.

Expect to hear a lot about the number 1,600 in coming years. That is the amount of electrical energy in a liter (0.26 gallons), or kilogram of gasoline expressed in kilowatt-hours.

A one-kilogram lithium-ion battery using today's most advanced designs produces 200 KwH. Stretching the envelope, scientists might get that to 400 KwH in the near future.

But any freshman physics student can tell you that since electrical motors are four times more efficient than internal combustion ones, that is effective parity with gasoline.

Since no one has done any serious research on inorganic chemistry since the Manhattan project, until Elon Musk came along, the prospects for rapid advances are good.

A good rule of thumb is that costs will drop my half every four years. So Tesla S-1 battery that costs $30,000 four years ago, will run $15,000 today, and only $7,500 in 2022.

Per Kilowatt battery costs are dropping like a stone, from $1,000 a kWh in the Nissan Leaf I bought eight years ago to $200 kWh in my new Tesla S-1.

In fact, the Tesla, it is such a revolutionary product that the battery is only the eighth most important thing.

The additional savings that no one talks about is that an electric motor with only eleven moving parts requires no tune-ups for the life of the vehicle.

This compares to over 1,000 parts for a standard gas engine. You only rotate tires every 6,000 miles. That's because the motor runs at room temperature, compared to 500 degrees for a conventional engine, so the parts last forever.

Visit the Tesla factory, and you are struck by the fact that there are almost no people, just an army of German robots. Few parts mean fewer workers, and lower costs.

All of the parts are made at the Fremont, CA plant, eliminating logistical headaches, and more cost. By only selling the vehicle online, the expense of a huge dealer network is dispatched.

The US government rates the S-1 as the safest car every built, a fact that I personally tested with my own crash. Consumer Reports argues that it is the highest quality vehicle every manufactured.

Tesla  Damage

My Personal Crash Test

Indeed, the Tesla S-1 is already the most registered car in America's highest earning zip codes. Oh, and did I tell you that the car is totally cool?

The New Tesla 3

Hence, the need for government subsidies to get private industry over the cost/production hump.

Nissan, Toyota, Tesla, and others are all betting their companies that further progress and economies of scale will drive that cost down to below $100 per kWh.

That will make electric cars cheaper than conventional hydrocarbon powered ones by a large margin. The global conversion to electric happens much faster than anyone thinks.

In a desperate attempt to play catch up, President Obama lavished money on alternative energy, virtually, since the day he arrived in office.

His original 2010 stimulus package included $167 billion for the industry, enough to move hundreds of projects out of college labs and into production.

However, in the ultimate irony, much of this money is going to foreign companies, since it is they who are closest to bringing commercially viable products to market. Look no further than South Korea's LG, which received $160 million to build batteries for the GM Volt.

Since then, all subsidies for electric cars have been eliminated by the tax bill passed in December.

Fortunately, the US, with its massively broad and deep basic research infrastructure, a large military research establishment (remember the old DARPA Net?), and dozens of still top rate universities, is in the best position to discover a breakthrough technology.

The Energy Department has financed the greatest burst in inorganic chemistry research in history, with top rate scientists pouring out of leading defense labs at Los Alamos, Lawrence Livermore, and Argonne National Labs.

There are newly funded teams around the country exploring opportunities in zinc-bromide, magnesium, and lithium sulfur batteries. A lot of excitement has been generated by lithium-air technology, as well as much controversy.

In the end, it may come down to whether our Chinese professors are smarter than their Chinese professors.

In 2007, the People's Republic took the unprecedented step of appointing Dr. Wan Gan as its Minister of Science and Technology, a brilliant Shanghai engineer and university president, without the benefit of membership in the communist party.

Battery development has been named a top national priority in China. It is all reminiscent of the 1960's missile race, when a huge NASA organization led by Dr. Werner Von Braun beat the Russians to the moon, proving our Germans were better than their Germans.

Anything for a Green Card

Consumers were the ultimate winners of that face off as the profusion of technologies the space program fathered pushed standards of living up everywhere.

I bet that's how this contest ends as well. The only question is whether the operating instructions will come in English or Mandarin.

Mandarin Writing
Its Easy, Just Read the Manual

I Don't Look 159 Years Old, Do I?


And in With the New Wheels

https://www.madhedgefundtrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Energizer-Bunny.jpg 347 290 Douglas Davenport https://madhedgefundtrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/cropped-mad-hedge-logo-transparent-192x192_f9578834168ba24df3eb53916a12c882.png Douglas Davenport2018-02-14 01:07:352018-02-14 01:07:35The Great Race for Battery Technology
Mad Hedge Fund Trader

The Great Race for Battery Technology

Diary, Newsletter

One hundred years from now, historians will probably date the beginning of the fall of the American Empire to 1986. That is the year President Ronald Reagan ordered Jimmy Carter?s solar panels torn down from the White House roof, and when Chinese Premier Deng Xiaoping launched his secret ?863? program to make his country a global technology leader.

Lady LibertyIs the End Near for the US?

? The big question today is who will win one of the biggest opportunities of our generation. Some 27 years later, the evidence that China is winning this final battle is everywhere.? China dominates in windmill power, controls 97% of the world?s rare earth supplies essential for modern electronics, is plunging ahead with ?clean coal?, and boasts the world?s most ambitious nuclear power program. It is a dominant player in high-speed rail, and is making serious moves into commercial and military aviation. It is also cleaning our clock in electric cars, with more than 30 low cost, emission free models coming to the market by the end of 2013. Looking from a distance, one could conclude that China has already won the technology war. Not if Tesla?s (TSLA) Elon Musk has anything to say about it. Our only serious entrant in this life or death competition is the Tesla Model S-1, which has been on the market now for a year.? At $80,000 per vehicle for the long range version that accounts for 90% of sales, production is now ramping up to a modest 40,000 units a year. My Model X SUV won?t be delivered until January 2015. Elon tells me that he plans to bring out a $40,000, 300-mile range ?Next Gen? vehicle by 2018, which will reach 500,000 in annual production. And they will all be 100% ?Made in the USA.? TSLA 11-5-13

JT with TeslaAnd the Winner Is?

? General Motors? (GM) pitiful entrant in this sweepstakes, the Chevy Volt, has utterly failed to reach the firm?s sales targets. It is, in fact, a hybrid that runs on battery power for the first 40 miles, when a weak conventional gasoline engine takes over to deal with ?range anxiety.? Still, I receive constant emails from drivers who say they absolutely love the cars, with many still driving around on the original year old tank of gas. And at $39,000, with dealer discounts and tax subsidies, it IS cheap. This is all far more than a race to bring commercial products to the marketplace. At stake is nothing less than the viability of our two economic systems. By setting national goals, providing unlimited funding, focusing scarce resources, and letting engineers run it all, China can orchestrate assaults on technical barriers and markets that planners here can only dream about. And let?s face it, economies of scale are possible in the Middle Kingdom that would be unimaginable in America.

Nissan LeafNissan Leaf

The laissez faire, libertarian approach now in vogue in the US creates a lot of noise, but little progress. The Dotcom bust dried up substantial research and development funding for technology for a decade. A ban on government funding of stem cell research, for religious reasons, left us seriously behind in that crucial field. An administration that believed that global warming was a leftist hoax, coddled big oil, and put alternative energy development on a back burner. While China was ramping up clean coal research, President Bush was closing down ours. Never mind that the people supplying us with 2 million barrels of crude a day from the Middle East are trying to kill us through whatever means possible, and are using our money to do it. But Americans are finally figuring out that we can?t raise our standard of living selling subprime loans to each other, and that a new direction is needed.

Toyota PriusToyota Plug-In Prius

Mention government involvement in anything these days and you get a sour, skeptical look. But this ignores the indisputable verdict of history. Most of the great leaps forward in US economic history were the product of massive government involvement. I?m thinking of the transcontinental railroad, the Panama Canal, Hoover Dam, the atomic bomb, and the interstate highway system. All of these were far too big for a private company ever to consider. If the government had not funneled billions in today?s dollars into early computer research, your laptop today would run on vacuum tubes, be as big as a skyscraper, and cost $100 million.

Mainframe - OldCheck Out My New Laptop

I mention all of this not because I have a fascination with obscure automotive technologies or inorganic chemistry (even though I do). Long time readers of this letter have already made some serious money in the battery space. This is not pie in the sky stuff; this is where money is being made now. I caught a 500% gain by hanging on to Warren Buffet?s coat tails with an investment in the Middle Kingdom?s Build Your Dreams (BYDDF) four years ago. I followed with a 250% profit in Chile?s Sociedad Qimica Y Minera (SQM), the world?s largest lithium producer. Tesla?s own shares have been the top performer in the US market in 2014, up over 400%. These are not small numbers. I have been an advocate and an enabler of this technology for 40 years, and my obsession has only recently started to pay off big time. We?re not talking about a few niche products here. The research boutique, HIS Insights, predicts that electric cars will take over 15% of the global car market, or 7.5 million units by 2020. Even with costs falling, that means the market will then be worth $225 billion. Electric cars and their multitude of spin off technologies will become a dominant investment theme for the rest of our lives. Think of the auto industry in the 1920?s. (TSLA), (BYDDF), and (SQM) are just the appetizers. BYDFF 11-5-13 All of this effort is being expended to bring battery technology out of the 19th century and into the 21st. The first crude electrical cell was invented by Italian Alessandro Volta in 1759, and Benjamin Franklin came up with
the term ?battery? after his experiments with brass keys and lightning. In 1859, Gaston Plant? discovered the formula that powers the Energizer bunny today.

Energizer BunnyI Don?t Look 154 Years Old, Do I?

Further progress was not made until none other than Exxon developed the first lithium-ion battery in 1977. Then, oil prices crashed, and the company scrapped the program, a strategy misstep that was to become a familiar refrain. Sony (SNE) took over the lead with nickel metal hydride technology, and owns the industry today, along with Chinese and South Korean competitors.

BYD F3BYD F3

We wait in gas lines to ?fill ?er up? for a reason. Gasoline has been the most efficient, concentrated, and easily distributed source of energy for more than a century. Expect to hear a lot about the number 1,600 in coming years. That is the amount of electrical energy in a liter (0.26 gallons), or kilogram of gasoline expressed in kilowatt-hours. A one-kilogram lithium-ion battery using today?s most advanced designs produces 200 KwH. Stretching the envelope, scientists might get that to 400 KwH in the near future. But any freshman physics student can tell you that since electrical motors are four times more efficient than internal combustion ones, that is effective parity with gasoline. Since no one has done any serious research on inorganic chemistry since the Manhattan project, until Elon Musk came along, the prospects for rapid advances are good. A good rule of thumb is that costs will drop by half every four years. So Tesla S-1 battery that costs $30,000 today will run $15,000 in 2017 and only $7,500 in 2021. Per Kilowatt battery costs are dropping like a stone, from $1,000 a kWh in the Nissan Leaf I bought three years ago to $365. kWh in my new Tesla S-1. In fact, the Tesla, is such a revolutionary product that the battery is only the eighth most important thing. The additional savings that no one talks about is that an electric motor with only eleven moving parts requires no tune-ups for the life of the vehicle. This compares to over 1,000 parts for a standard gas engine. You only rotate tires every 6,000 miles. That?s because the motor runs at room temperature, compared to 500 degrees for a conventional engine, so the parts last forever. Visit the Tesla factory, and you are struck by the fact that there are almost no people, just an army of German robots. Few parts mean fewer workers, and lower costs. All of the parts are made at the Fremont, CA plant, eliminating logistical headaches, and more cost. By only selling the vehicle online, the expense of a huge dealer network is dispatched. The US government rates the S-1 as the safest car every built, a fact that I personally tested with my own crash. Consumer Reports argues that it is the highest quality vehicle every manufactured.

Tesla  DamageMy Personal Crash Test

Indeed, the Tesla S-1 is already the most registered car in America?s highest earning zip codes. Oh, and did I tell you that the car is totally cool? SQM 11-5-13 Hence the need for government subsidies to get private industry over the cost/production hump. Nissan, Toyota, Tesla, and others are all betting their companies that further progress and economies of scale will drive that cost down to below $100 per kWh. That will make electric cars cheaper than conventional hydrocarbon powered ones by a large margin. The global conversion to electric happens much faster than anyone thinks. In a desperate attempt to play catch up, President Obama has lavished money on alternative energy, virtually, since the day he arrived in office. His original stimulus package included $167 billion for the industry, enough to move hundreds of projects out of college labs and into production. However, in the ultimate irony, much of this money is going to foreign companies, since it is they who are closest to bringing commercially viable products to market. Look no further than South Korea?s LG, which received $160 million to build batteries for the Volt. The IRS currently gives buyers of electric cars a $7,500 tax credit on their federal return. California buyers get an additional check for $2,500, and get zero emissions commuter stickers which permit single drivers in HOV lanes. Fortunately the US with its massively broad and deep basic research infrastructure, a large military research establishment (remember the old DARPA Net?), and dozens of still top rate universities, is in the best position to discover a breakthrough technology. The Energy Department has financed the greatest burst in inorganic chemistry research in history, with top rate scientists pouring out of leading defense labs at Los Alamos, Lawrence Livermore, and Argonne National Labs. There are newly funded teams around the country exploring opportunities in zinc-bromide, magnesium, and lithium sulfur batteries. A lot of excitement has been generated by lithium-air technology, as well as much controversy. In the end, it may come down to whether our Chinese professors are smarter than their Chinese professors.? In 2007, the People?s Republic took the unprecedented step of appointing Dr. Wan Gang as its Minister of Science and Technology, a brilliant Shanghai engineer and university president, without the benefit of membership in the communist party. Battery development has been named a top national priority in China. It is all reminiscent of the 1960?s missile race, when a huge NASA organization led by Dr. Wernher von Braun beat the Russians to the moon, proving our Germans were better than their Germans.

Wernher von Braun - RocketAnything for a Green Card

Consumers were the ultimate winners of that face off as the profusion of technologies the space program fathered pushed standards of living up everywhere. I bet that?s how this contest ends as well. The only question is whether the operating instructions will come in English?or Mandarin.

Mandarin WritingIt?s Easy, Just Read the Manual

https://www.madhedgefundtrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Energizer-Bunny.jpg 347 290 Mad Hedge Fund Trader https://madhedgefundtrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/cropped-mad-hedge-logo-transparent-192x192_f9578834168ba24df3eb53916a12c882.png Mad Hedge Fund Trader2013-11-06 01:03:352013-11-06 01:03:35The Great Race for Battery Technology
DougD

China?s Rate Cut is a Game Changer

Diary

For the first time in three years, China (FXI) has cut its prime lending rate by 50 basis points. The timing caught many analysts by surprise, as such move was not expected until the lunar new year in early February. Perhaps recent data showing collapsing exports prompted the Mandarins in Beijing to hurriedly move up the timetable.

The Middle Kingdom?s action is one of the most important developments in financial markets this year, since it represents a major sea change, and is hugely positive for the global economy. It could signal a coming year of additional incremental interest rate cuts and bank reserve reductions designed to keep the country above the ?red line? GDP growth rate of 8%. Observers were also stunned by the magnitude of the cut, 50 basis points, compared to the usual 25 basis point move seen by the People?s Bank of China.

I have been comfortably out of Chinese equities for more than a year, vowing not to return to the mainland until interest rates fell. Now the worm has turned. It may be time to take another look at companies like Build Your Dreams (BYDDF), which has risen by 50% since my undercover visit there last month. Other names like China Telecom, China Mobile, and Baidu (BIDU), are also starting to look interesting.

 

 

 

 

We Want Lower Interest Rates!

https://madhedgefundtrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/cropped-mad-hedge-logo-transparent-192x192_f9578834168ba24df3eb53916a12c882.png 0 0 DougD https://madhedgefundtrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/cropped-mad-hedge-logo-transparent-192x192_f9578834168ba24df3eb53916a12c882.png DougD2011-11-30 23:56:102011-11-30 23:56:10China?s Rate Cut is a Game Changer
DougD

What?s up with BYD?

Diary

When I first bought shares in the Chinese electric car manufacturer, BYD (BYDDF) (or Build Your Dreams) in 2009 on the heels of Warren Buffet?s 10% investment, it looked like a total home run. The stock soared from $1.50 to $11, given me a paper return of 730%.

Undercover, I Totally Blend

Last year, the stock started to roll over, retracing all the way back to my cost. I called the company?s Los Angeles office, but the line was disconnected. I tried the New York office, but my call was never returned. An email I sent their headquarters in Shenzhen, China went unanswered. I even had a friend in the Chinese government make some inquires, and he told me the company wasn?t seeing anyone.

That?s it! Off with the gloves. No more Mr. nice guy. I did what I usually do when a company I follow won?t talk to me. I fly to their headquarters and break into the facility.

It was easier than you think. I simply pulled up to the main gate in Northern Shenzhen and told security that I was a friend of Mr. Buffet and was there to see Mr. Li. They waved me through and went scurrying to find the appropriate Mr. Li. I knew full well that in a company of 100,000, at least 10,000 had to be named Mr. Li, and by the time they figured out that there was no Mr. Li, I would be long gone. It worked like a charm.

This Could Be Your Next Car

At this point, my editor is saying, ?You did what!?? Indeed, my staff worries about my antics from time to time, fearing the dole if I fail to return from one of my adventures. But the nine life limitation that cats face doesn?t seem to apply to me, so I just keep on going.

I then set off and roamed the factory floors freely, stopping workers wherever I could and asking about conditions. The great thing about this approach is that the man on the assembly line, in R&D, and the girl in accounting are totally unfamiliar with management?s sanitized view for public consumption, and haven?t been professionally trained to lie. As a result, I was able to get a first class read on the state of the company.


E-Taxis

When I met with the Shenzhen venture capital community in the days before, the rumors were rampant. When founder and CEO, Wang Chuanfu, launched his assault on the global car market three years ago, expectations were high. He promised investors, like Berkshire Hathaway?s Charlie Munger, that BYD would soon become the world?s largest car manufacturer. He ramped up production from 500,000 vehicles to 800,000 in 2010, anticipating a huge demand for the company?s conventional cars and hybrids.

But quality issues persisted, and the resale rate to past BYD car owners fell to zero. Sales peaked at just over 500,000, leaving the company with a huge inventory of unsold vehicles. Profits collapsed. Mercedes was brought in to provide technical assistance, but has so far been unable to improve sales. Was BYD going under? Was Warren Buffet pulling his investment? Speculation was rife.

One salesman told me that the information blackout was ordered not due to any financial problems, but because the company was releasing its new, all electric Model E6 the following week. This car is much larger than other electric cars, gets an amazing 186 miles per charge, and will be offered for sale for $39,000 after government incentives.

If true, this would be a revolutionary, highly disruptive advance. BYD plan to export the car to the US as soon as possible. It has already been test driving a fleet of ?E-Taxis? on the streets of Shenzhen for the past 18 months, with much success. If the company cans delivery on the vehicle, Wang Chuanfu might realize his ambitious goals after all.

China currently subsidizes energy prices, with gasoline available for about $3.50 a gallon, or 10% lower than US prices. That means a smaller cost advantages for alternative car producers. That disadvantage could disappear during the next oil price spike. Government subsidies will also eventually have to disappear because they are too costly.

Finally, after two hours of scouring the grounds, inspecting the physical remains of their crash tests, inspecting the assembly line, and peeking through windows, I was ready to go. There once was a day when I could have been put in front of a firing squad for doing something like this. But the People?s Republic has grown soft in its old age, and I figured that, worst case, I would just get kicked off the grounds. Not, so for my Chinese staff, however, who were sweating bullets and begging me to leave.

So what are investors to take away from this? For a start, you run out and buy tsunami afflicted, beaten down Nissan Motors (NSANY). If BYD can squeeze 186 miles out of its batteries, so can Nissan, and there is already talk that the second generation all-electric Leaf will reach that target. That will eliminate the ?range anxiety? afflicting current owners with their 80 mile limitation.

As for BYD itself, the story is a little more complicated. At this share price, you are essentially getting a world class multinational lithium ion battery company with the car company thrown in for free. If the car division continues to sputter along, you can expect modest appreciation in the shares. But if the E-6 becomes the next big car of the future, the stock could go ballistic and potentially make a new high, delivering investors a multi bagger.

Whoa, That Was Close

https://madhedgefundtrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/cropped-mad-hedge-logo-transparent-192x192_f9578834168ba24df3eb53916a12c882.png 0 0 DougD https://madhedgefundtrader.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/cropped-mad-hedge-logo-transparent-192x192_f9578834168ba24df3eb53916a12c882.png DougD2011-11-08 00:38:512011-11-08 00:38:51What?s up with BYD?
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